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[Music]

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skin walker

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what's up everybody

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thanks for joining me on this uh

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kind of an odd late show for me usually

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i'm an afternoon guy

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um

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so i appreciate you hanging out being

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here for this i'm looking forward to it

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we have

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uh a couple of legends here from

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this very hot book

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that you can buy the description

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uh of this video has links to these

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books so if you have not read them you

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should one is a very detailed account of

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a program called assap that was run

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um

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basically out of dia

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so you should definitely

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check it out

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today we have our co-host mr g

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christopher king how are you doing sir

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i'm doing great it's nice to do a um

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it's nice to do a rare evening show i uh

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i think it's because you know rumor has

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it that uh george knapp's powers

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actually increased tenfold after sundown

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so

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i've heard that you heard that too right

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so no i think that's my

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you know that that's my guess for why

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this is happening but um

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but i'm i'm really moving forward i know

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casinos of las vegas that probably

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give the power there

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thanks everybody in the chat for hanging

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out kristen uh kirsten um

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we got uh miss miller there and taylor

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andres everybody i really appreciate you

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being here um as far as the live chat i

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made it so only members could chat

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tonight i did that for a particular

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reason um there's

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one epidemic we all know it's uh covet

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19 we have another one and it's just

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downright disrespectful trolls so i did

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that to keep the conversation cool uh we

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did you know garner some questions

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online so to make sure everybody could

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participate there

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um but let's just get right into it

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because people aren't here for us dude

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yep i've got a i got a quick bio if you

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want me to read it or we can just go

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right into it sure okay

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uh george knapp is a veteran television

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news journalist for klas in las vegas

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he's also a long-standing weekend host

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of the popular radio program coast to

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coast am

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among other honors he's earned two

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national edward r murrow awards for his

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investigative stories and is a nine-time

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winner of the associated press mark

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twain award for best news writing he's

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also won 24 regional emmys

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column kelleher is a biochemist with an

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extensive background in cell and

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molecular biology he served as vice

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president and chief scientist for

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environmental control and life support

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systems at bigelow aerospace he's also

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managed the day-to-day operations for

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the advanced aerospace weapon systems

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application program or awsap

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for the us government through a contract

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given to bigelow aerospace advanced

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space studies through the dia

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he was also the deputy administrator for

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the national institute for discovery

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science and currently has a similar role

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at the bigelow institute for

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consciousness studies together they've

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co-written the book

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hunt for the skinwalker and with james

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lakatsky they also co-wrote last year's

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intriguing follow-up

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skinwalkers at the pentagon george

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column

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it's a real honor to have you both on

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the show today john jay great to be here

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yeah super super grateful for the time

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donating the time i couldn't thank you

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enough um but we were just

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you know not to get off on on a bad note

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here but we were just informed about

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uh mr john lear from you that

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unfortunately passed away last night and

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um i know he played a critical role in

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your career uh george

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um

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yeah so i'm i'm sorry about uh

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i'm sorry about that um if there's

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anything you want to say about him feel

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free

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well um john was a complicated man he

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was a great man in many respects he was

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the son of a legend in aviation you know

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bill lear developed the

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uh learjet also the eight-track tape by

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the way uh in the early days if you look

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back into the files sean i know you dig

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into a lot of old document stuff there

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are clear indications bill lear was

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involved in anti-gravity research

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because of all of his account

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accomplishments in aviation john young

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john got to meet all these legends and

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uh and develop relationships with him

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and he in some ways was kind of the

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black sheep of the lear family but he

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carved his own path

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at the age of 18 he becomes an aviator

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himself he flies everything he had

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multiple more than a dozen world speed

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records

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he crashed at a young age too

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terrible injuries that stayed with him

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the rest of his life

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he worked for cia he flew for the cia in

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vietnam and then other hot spots as a

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cargo pilot around the world

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and uh he was my entry point to the ufo

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story he came into the news station one

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day in 1989

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and plopped a big pile of documents on

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this on the desk of my mentor ned day

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our managing editor the supreme the best

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reporter in las vegas ever and said hey

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ned i i had helped ned break a big story

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the existence of a plane that was

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invisible to radar out in a place called

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area 51. so he had certain credibility

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with ned and he showed him this pile of

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documents ufo documents you got to look

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at this is the biggest story ever it'll

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be the crowning achievement of your

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career and uh ned looked at some of this

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stuff he said this can't be real if it

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was real i'd already know about it so he

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shoved it aside

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i was eavesdropping as always and i said

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let me take a look at that stuff and i

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read this this material and i thought

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well this is kind of intriguing and at

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the time i i hosted this little radio uh

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tv show

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30 minute interview program called on

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the record that aired in the mornings

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saturday or sunday morning at seven

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o'clock

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nobody watched it i'd have the city

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council or something like that on there

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and uh i had leer on and the the

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response was huge i just let him go i

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never heard all this ufo stuff before

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just let him go

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and he unleashed this torrent of

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information that i had never heard the

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likes of before

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and the phone starts ringing and people

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are wondering is that the real deal

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what's going on and i start reading a

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little bit about ufos and then they had

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him back again the response was bigger

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had him on a third time

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and he hinted that this would have been

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late 1988 he hinted that he knew a guy

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who'd just been hired out in area 51 and

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there's going to be some revelations

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about flying saucers and the guy he

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he was referencing

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was bob lazar and it was in fact it's to

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the day march

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29 1989 last night same night that john

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lear died

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he

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video of an object

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glowing object that rose over the

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mountains of papua's lake not not groom

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lake

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blowing made some maneuvers then went

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back down

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that was the lazar had said that's when

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it's gonna they're gonna fly that night

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and uh and sure enough it did so there

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was an interesting guy

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went into a lot of conspiracy theories

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that you know you had to take with a

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grain of salt but i owe him a debt

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because he really did help me so much in

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the beginning got me interested in it

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and

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for good or for better or worse

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it really was helpful

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thanks for sharing that story i mean i

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think uh a lot of us especially you know

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being somewhat new here there's there's

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a lot of history to this topic that you

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know i'm somewhat ignorant too so being

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able to learn that and also realizing

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that there is so much more to people

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than you know uh is pretty important

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especially like chandler like

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um i think maybe people think about the

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moon bases or something like that but

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you know he was a real person that

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contributed a lot uh to this topic um

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for the simple fact that you're here

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today um and that's you know played a

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huge role in ossap and as senator reid

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and bob bigelow i mean

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who knows you know if one of those

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pieces were missing

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so it's true yeah yeah

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that being said uh transitioning to

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um

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the book

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um there's there's been a lot of talk

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about

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um the differences of uh

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atip and ossep and

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some people even seemingly trying to

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pit uh maybe you guys against lou

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elizondo i remember

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when this book came out one of the first

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things that was talked about was the

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remote viewing section or when he was at

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dinner with you guys and he was telling

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stories about it and people just latched

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on to that right away and and tried to

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to you know tear a hole in in you know

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in you guys um

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so

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first of all like can you set the record

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straight i mean i'm sure you're that

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wasn't your intent and and i guess

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second question for both of you guys um

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you know

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where is the line between the two

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you know osap and at for my knowledge

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a-tip was a nickname inserted in a

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letter

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um

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and that's about it

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and asap got basically all the funding

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and did most of the work

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he

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um

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military sightings and and was out of

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the pentagon correct

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i think column got to know lou a lot

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much earlier before me so he should

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probably take this first well

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you know that dinner that you described

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i i was i was at that dinner and uh

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it was like the the crandall cram of the

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inter-agency experts

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who all had a burning interest in ufos

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and louis elizondo was one of those

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axelrod was there lakotsky was there hal

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put off was there robert bigelow was

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there

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have always wanted to maintain a low

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profile

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so that dinner was uh was a sort of a

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who's who

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in washington dc from multiple different

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intelligence agencies

281
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:08,560
all of whom had a burning interest in

282
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:11,920
ufos and lou elizondo was part of that

283
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:14,000
team he was a special agent

284
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:15,920
counterintelligence agent that worked

285
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:16,640
for

286
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:20,959
intelligence at the time

287
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,760
so his role in in this whole thing was

288
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:24,720
to

289
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,959
um you know uh

290
00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:28,640
basically function as the

291
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:30,640
counter-intelligence guru

292
00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:32,480
in this whole program because there was

293
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:33,760
a lot of

294
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:36,800
um concern in many areas of the pentagon

295
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:40,000
that you know there could be leaks

296
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:43,120
regarding this uh this program

297
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,480
so

298
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,560
the asap program

299
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:48,560
was the advanced aerospace weapons

300
00:11:54,069 --> 00:11:50,880
systems application program which was

301
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:54,079
the 22 million dollar program that was

302
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:56,240
funded through the defense intelligence

303
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:59,200
agency ran for 24 months and three

304
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:00,240
months of

305
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:02,880
uh no cost extension a total of 27

306
00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:04,480
months

307
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:08,160
so asap was the recipient of the money

308
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:12,320
it had full-time uh 50 full-time

309
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,200
researchers everything from phd level

310
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,279
scientists master's degrees scientists

311
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:18,720
technicians

312
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:21,760
um counterintelligence people

313
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:24,480
security people translators

314
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:25,440
um

315
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,399
you know

316
00:12:30,230 --> 00:12:28,240
right across the gamut military

317
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:30,240
intelligence professionals

318
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:33,440
all working full-time on the

319
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:35,920
the overall question uh that the defense

320
00:12:40,870 --> 00:12:38,560
intelligence agency was initially

321
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:40,880
focused on was

322
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,360
are ufos

323
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:46,000
do they constitute a threat

324
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,560
regarding their presence in the airspace

325
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:51,120
over the united states

326
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:55,120
so uh the 50 strong people worked

327
00:12:59,350 --> 00:12:56,720
round the clock essentially for two

328
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:59,360
years to uh to try to answer that

329
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:00,399
question

330
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:04,079
so the atip uh the whole atip acronym

331
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:05,279
came up

332
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,120
in july of 2009 when senator reid

333
00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:11,279
was realizing that there were elements

334
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:13,680
of the assap program that really needed

335
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,040
to go

336
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:17,519
to a special access program status

337
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:19,839
partly to protect the security of the

338
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:23,440
program but also to protect it from the

339
00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:24,880
um the

340
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,160
large amount of unease in the uh in the

341
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:30,959
pentagon at this kind of a very

342
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:33,440
controversial program so

343
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,440
the acronym a tip was used as a moniker

344
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:39,199
to disguise

345
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:42,160
uh the name asap for the program during

346
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:45,760
that process of going to the pentagon um

347
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:49,839
to secure special excess program status

348
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:53,120
fast forward several years the the uh

349
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:55,279
the program osap program

350
00:14:02,230 --> 00:13:59,120
essentially shut down at the end of 2010

351
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:02,240
december of 2010 uh there were elements

352
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:04,480
of of the program that continued in

353
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,519
terms of

354
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:07,519
trying to um

355
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,680
repurpose some of some of the

356
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:11,199
congressional funding that was still

357
00:14:16,629 --> 00:14:14,240
available into other landing sites

358
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:16,639
besides the the defense intelligence

359
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:18,240
agency so

360
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:19,360
um

361
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:22,639
about 2015 or 2016

362
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:24,959
um is the first time that people i'm

363
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:28,480
associated with ever heard the name atip

364
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:32,399
and atip was associated with a small

365
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,600
pentagon program that was focused on

366
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:37,199
investigating

367
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:39,760
interactions between ufos and military

368
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:43,120
aircraft ufos and and carrier strike

369
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,680
groups off the both the west coast and

370
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:47,839
the east coast of the united states

371
00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:50,240
and um that program was completely

372
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:52,160
separate from the

373
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:54,320
uh the asap program

374
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,399
it's uh it was carried out to the best

375
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,279
of my knowledge by uh people who were

376
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,360
extremely interested

377
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:03,680
in uh getting to the bottom of the the

378
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:06,560
ufo phenomenon particularly as it

379
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:08,079
pertained to

380
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:11,040
interaction with military aircraft and

381
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:13,360
um aircraft carriers

382
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:16,639
um it did not have the the broad scope

383
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:20,240
or the funding that assaf had but it was

384
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:23,040
a genuine project that went on at the

385
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,880
pentagon

386
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:26,720
to the best of my knowledge i've talked

387
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:29,920
to people about this and they they they

388
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:30,720
did

389
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:34,079
know about us our atip back in

390
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:36,639
2016 uh time frame

391
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:40,560
so uh new york star times broke that big

392
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:43,440
expose in december of 2017

393
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:46,480
and they kind of conflated the 22

394
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:49,519
million dollar program with the atip

395
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,639
moniker

396
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:52,639
the that the guy who was leading that

397
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:55,920
a-tip was lu elizondo and they conflated

398
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,279
him with the 22 million dollar program

399
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:01,440
that was being run out of the uh the

400
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:04,320
defense intelligence agency and you know

401
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:06,560
i mean these things happen

402
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:09,600
uh there was no sort of conflict

403
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:12,959
um that the transition between assap and

404
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:16,399
atip was was fairly nondescript

405
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:18,639
um but it was the

406
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:21,040
media essentially that ran away with the

407
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:23,680
new york times article and four years

408
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:24,880
later

409
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:27,360
we decided you know to put the uh put

410
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:29,199
the record straight

411
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:30,800
because partly

412
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:33,839
one of our you know one of our beefs was

413
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:36,720
that the the media had only focused on

414
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:39,360
about three percent of the scope of the

415
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:41,759
asap program so we wanted to set the

416
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,320
record straight and essentially tell the

417
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,000
other 97

418
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:47,920
of what the assad program was really

419
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:50,000
about and that's what the book really

420
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:50,959
does

421
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:53,120
as you know you know in ufo world

422
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,519
everything becomes a major a point of

423
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:57,600
disagreement and there are folks who

424
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,480
don't like lou elizondo who try to use

425
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:03,040
our book as a way to bash him aha he's

426
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:04,559
not telling the truth this is a wrong

427
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:07,760
story not true the story of asap

428
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:10,079
asap is one thing a tips the other the

429
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,240
confusion was created by the media and

430
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,240
there's nothing in our book that bashes

431
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:16,160
lou or his his story or his account of

432
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:19,120
what atep has done secondly people who

433
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:22,079
defend luke uh see it as maybe an attack

434
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,120
on him

435
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:24,959
so they go after us as well i've seen

436
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:27,439
these comments and tweets and and and

437
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:29,679
commentaries and stories what we really

438
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,000
need is a good program like atep not

439
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,400
some little tiny private contract like

440
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:36,960
asap well awesome was a massive program

441
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:39,360
50 full-time employees investigators

442
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:41,760
they produced an incredible database and

443
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:43,200
a series of reports that we'll talk

444
00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:46,960
about atip was small it was informal

445
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,200
it's this loose confederation of people

446
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:50,960
inside the pentagon who had an interest

447
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:52,880
in this program we don't know what their

448
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:55,840
budget is lewis said it had a budget

449
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:58,000
maybe he's right and i'm sure he can be

450
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,679
able to prove it at some point but the

451
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:01,760
22 million was awesome that was not a

452
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:04,000
tip there were people who worked with

453
00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:07,440
atip who were also involved with assad

454
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:09,360
they were kind of loose

455
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,240
advisors people in positions of power

456
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:14,720
who helped uh for example on the tic tac

457
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:16,960
report that was an awesome project the

458
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:18,799
tic tac was something that awesap dug

459
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:22,080
into and produced an incredible analysis

460
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,799
uh i i released one of those analyses

461
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:26,080
the first one that was done but there

462
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:27,440
was a much bigger one that the world

463
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:28,640
hasn't seen

464
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:30,160
that was a

465
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,640
huge accomplishment and as i said the

466
00:18:35,909 --> 00:18:34,080
world has not seen it but that was

467
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:35,919
awesome not atep

468
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,000
i don't think people realize that that

469
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,799
that the whole tic tac episode that was

470
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:42,400
uh investigated by

471
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:45,440
by ossep and uh axelrod correct

472
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:47,120
yeah yes

473
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,760
and so no actually the the originator of

474
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:51,200
that um

475
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:52,720
that tic tac

476
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:54,720
event uh report

477
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:57,440
essentially was one of the first people

478
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,200
that i interviewed and hired at uh at

479
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,280
the las vegas center

480
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,280
for the asap program

481
00:19:08,789 --> 00:19:07,600
it was a guy lieutenant colonel from the

482
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:08,799
marines

483
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:11,600
who had a really excellent resume had a

484
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,320
great background and who walked in sat

485
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,640
down i basically had hired him within

486
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,240
10-15 minutes

487
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:19,919
halfway through the interview or towards

488
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:21,520
the end of the interview he drops this

489
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:24,080
bombshell on me that he'd been involved

490
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:28,160
in this uh really intense encounter with

491
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:31,760
the ufo off the coast of san diego um as

492
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:32,880
part of the

493
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,520
nimitz carrier strike group and so

494
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:36,960
nobody

495
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:39,760
um you know essentially in the world at

496
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:42,480
the time knew about that um and it was

497
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:46,160
the asap people i i contacted james t

498
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:47,679
lakatsky who was the defense

499
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:49,919
intelligence agency analyst who was

500
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,120
running the program and on the the dc

501
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:56,000
part um i also talked with robert

502
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:58,640
bigelow about it and lukowski then

503
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:01,679
contacted axelrod and he put together a

504
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:04,480
team of investigators that went out and

505
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:07,280
actually interviewed every single pilot

506
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:09,360
that had encountered the the tic tac

507
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:12,000
object as well as multiple crew members

508
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:15,840
of the uss princeton so um all of those

509
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:18,799
uh data were put together by axelrod and

510
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:21,840
his team into a report that george just

511
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:22,799
mentioned

512
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:25,679
um that was sent as one of the 104

513
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:28,880
reports that asap submitted to

514
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:31,120
the defense intelligence agency as

515
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,520
deliverables for that 22 million dollar

516
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,360
contract

517
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:37,679
the you know the the confusion also from

518
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,679
the people who were involved all along

519
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,000
the way so there was a core group of

520
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:44,720
pentagon advisors who were interested in

521
00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:47,360
asap some of those attended this dinner

522
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:49,840
those same people after asap was

523
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,000
kneecapped and the money was pulled they

524
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:54,960
became the core of atec and lou elizondo

525
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,520
to his credit resurrected it you know as

526
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:59,679
best he could a smaller version but he

527
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:01,600
kept it going with these same group of

528
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:02,400
people

529
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,640
the backbone of the uap task force as

530
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,880
well so you know they've they've moved

531
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:10,640
along from program to program but there

532
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:13,440
is no conflict between ossap and atip

533
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:15,120
except those that have been created by

534
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,919
ufo nuts and those confu the confusion

535
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:19,520
that's been created by media reports

536
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:25,029
thanks so much for helping to clarify

537
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:28,320
that that's that's really helpful um

538
00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:29,200
you know

539
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,360
one one thing that's come up before is

540
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:33,440
that um you know the hunt for the

541
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:36,720
skinwalker was largely documenting a lot

542
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:39,360
of the work that nids was doing on the

543
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:42,960
skinwalker ranch and it had the kind of

544
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:44,880
um in

545
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:47,120
amazing consequence

546
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:49,360
as it's been said that that people read

547
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:51,520
this book and that actually may have

548
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,320
been very influential in in terms of

549
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:56,400
developing the asap program and getting

550
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:59,440
that initial funding now of course with

551
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:00,880
skinwalkers at the pentagon we're

552
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:03,360
looking at the work that asap did and

553
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:05,440
you know i i have a quote here from

554
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:07,679
george saying if there's any one lesson

555
00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:09,280
to be learned from this book you need to

556
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,320
follow the evidence where it leads and

557
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:15,039
column uh

558
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:15,760
with

559
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:18,400
saying

560
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,200
the temple is robust the template should

561
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,559
be repeated

562
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:24,799
the template should be expanded

563
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:27,440
beyond a two-year program

564
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,400
along those lines um are you

565
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:32,720
are you looking forward to possibly

566
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:35,200
being actively involved yourself in a

567
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:37,600
program like this if it were to be able

568
00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:38,320
to

569
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:47,679
would you be excited are you excited

570
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:49,520
about any possible prospects or anything

571
00:22:55,350 --> 00:22:52,240
on the horizon that might end up in a

572
00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:55,360
quadrant like that well

573
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:57,679
that's a pretty complicated question but

574
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:58,640
um

575
00:23:02,950 --> 00:22:59,360
so

576
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:02,960
going back to the uap task force

577
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:03,760
um

578
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:06,480
the the people on the uap task force

579
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,280
were

580
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:09,840
i mean i know them i've i've had a lot

581
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:12,159
of zoom calls with them and

582
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:13,840
um as they were going through that

583
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:14,960
process

584
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:17,679
um they they later became the you know

585
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,159
department of defense made it official

586
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:22,559
and then they sort of morphed into other

587
00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:25,120
iterations but the original people on

588
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:26,720
that task force

589
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:29,440
were very very much in sync

590
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:32,559
with the uh both the findings and the

591
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:36,080
strategy behind the asap approach which

592
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:38,320
and the osap approach just very simply

593
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:41,520
was to look at both the technology

594
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:43,679
associated with ufos

595
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:44,640
all

596
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:49,919
parameters that can be gleaned from both

597
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,880
human observers and sensors as well as

598
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:55,200
the second part was the the effects of

599
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,200
ufo on humans which is a much more sort

600
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:01,279
of complicated

601
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:04,400
medical slash scientific inquiry

602
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,279
which

603
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:07,520
a lot of people tend to avoid if

604
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,000
possible because it does once you start

605
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:11,760
dealing with biology

606
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:13,840
the uncertainty principle starts kicking

607
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:16,720
in and things tend to get messy but you

608
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:18,960
know that the bottom line is that the

609
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:21,919
the folks on the uap task force even as

610
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:25,360
it evolved had a very um

611
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,200
you know they had a very sort of broad

612
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:29,600
scope of what could be done or what

613
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,400
needed to be done um you know as time

614
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:34,720
has gone on the the program is now

615
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:38,159
located at the office of the uh under

616
00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:41,279
secretary for defensive and intelligence

617
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:44,799
um as well as the um you know major

618
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,120
player in this is the u.s air force

619
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,919
so there's a lot less interest in the

620
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:51,360
broad scope

621
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,240
that the original version of the uap

622
00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:56,559
task force had been interested in and

623
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,720
now there's sort of uh there's a lot of

624
00:25:01,909 --> 00:25:00,400
foot dragging going on

625
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:01,919
you know there are various attempts

626
00:25:07,110 --> 00:25:04,000
within the the pentagon and the

627
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,120
department of defense to try to carve

628
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:09,840
out particular niches that could be

629
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,880
really relevant as time goes on so in

630
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:14,720
answer to your question i guess it

631
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,520
really depends on what comes out of this

632
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:18,960
whole sort of

633
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:21,200
sausage making activity that's going on

634
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,640
behind the scenes

635
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:24,960
because what could come out could be

636
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:27,360
a very dilute version of project blue

637
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:31,200
book if the air force and the usdi has

638
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:35,200
its way or alternatively if the senate

639
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:37,760
uh and and the congress have have their

640
00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:38,640
way

641
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,840
um because they put forward some very

642
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:43,760
straightforward

643
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:46,880
easy to understand proposals

644
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,840
if they're if their attack is followed i

645
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:52,000
would definitely be interested in being

646
00:25:55,909 --> 00:25:54,320
involved in a program like that but i

647
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:55,919
certainly would not be interested

648
00:26:02,470 --> 00:25:58,799
involved in a program that was dominated

649
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:02,480
by a a combination of the usdi

650
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:05,200
and the united states air force because

651
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:08,000
history has a way of repeating itself

652
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:11,360
and you know blue book ended in 1969

653
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:14,240
but the idea that that this program

654
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:15,840
could evolve into

655
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:18,960
a light version of blue of blue book uh

656
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:21,200
would hold absolutely zero interest for

657
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:22,480
me

658
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,039
like having read thousands of those

659
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:29,520
files it's incredible to to see how

660
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:31,919
easily they wrote off the cases

661
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:34,960
um as meteors or you know what have you

662
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,760
even

663
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,440
towards the end heineck would would

664
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,679
refuse to even cooperate with their

665
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:41,200
analysis and give a different one and

666
00:26:45,029 --> 00:26:43,279
call it unidentified then they would

667
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,039
wind up getting menzel involved because

668
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:47,200
they just couldn't sustain it but right

669
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:48,400
um

670
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:51,039
you know the one of these dirts that's a

671
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:54,240
pretty um important at least it was for

672
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:56,240
me when i when i read it was an

673
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,240
anomalous uh you know health effects

674
00:27:01,590 --> 00:27:00,080
sub-acute and acute it's called

675
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,600
something like that um

676
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:03,200
you know basically talks about

677
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:04,840
everything from

678
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:08,320
telepathy um to

679
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:11,679
all sorts of rf uh you know

680
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:14,000
symptoms from burning to all sorts of

681
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:14,880
stuff

682
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,360
in there um and one quote really stood

683
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:19,679
out to me you know maybe you could uh

684
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:21,760
clear that up i know kick green was the

685
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:24,159
author if i'm i'm correct

686
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:26,159
as the purpose of this paper is to argue

687
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,880
that data exists to reverse engineer

688
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:30,720
propulsion systems of anomalous

689
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:32,840
aerospace vehicles

690
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:35,840
um i mean to to be able to do that you

691
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:37,760
have to know what kind of propulsion the

692
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:40,000
anomalous aerospace vehicle

693
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,399
is using correct am i reading that quote

694
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:44,399
wrong or is that say what i think it

695
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:49,909
um well my interpretation of that is

696
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:52,720
that you can if if you have enough um

697
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:55,200
biological data especially as it

698
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:58,880
pertains to non-ionizing radiation or

699
00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:00,399
you know in some cases ionizing

700
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:01,760
radiation but let's stick with

701
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:04,799
non-ionizing radiation for the moment if

702
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:08,080
you have enough data on that in terms of

703
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:10,799
impacts on cells impacts on on

704
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:13,039
hematological parameters

705
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:15,360
you can do a good job of estimating

706
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:16,399
energy

707
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:21,520
starting to look at what the engineering

708
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,480
to produce that energy might look like

709
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:26,880
so that's would be my interpretation of

710
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,679
what that that paper is saying um you

711
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:31,440
know maybe kit green has a different

712
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:34,240
interpretation but you know that

713
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:36,880
it is possible with enough data in the

714
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:40,080
biological sphere to do a pretty good

715
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:41,039
job

716
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:44,480
in terms of at least boxing in the uh

717
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,000
the parameters that should be studied uh

718
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:50,240
with respect to the engineering of what

719
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:52,399
produced that radiation

720
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:54,399
right and we also had you know from the

721
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:57,440
beginning uh boss app was a technology

722
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:59,200
program they wanted to be able to figure

723
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:00,559
this stuff out

724
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,360
jim lakatsky has said uh in the book and

725
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:05,440
to us in interviews and things that this

726
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:07,600
was a ufo program they wanted to figure

727
00:29:11,909 --> 00:29:09,279
out the technology how did these things

728
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:11,919
fly are they a threat can we duplicate

729
00:29:16,389 --> 00:29:14,000
it that's that was the primary mission

730
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:16,399
we've seen a lot of speculation in the

731
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:18,480
ufo world that it had nothing to do with

732
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:21,039
ufos and these foia people saying oh my

733
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:23,600
gosh it doesn't say ufos they assume

734
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:25,120
that they are the smartest people in the

735
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:27,600
room and then if uh if there's a ufo

736
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,440
program that clearly these people at the

737
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:31,200
pentagon would be so stupid enough to

738
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:33,679
mention ufos and flying saucers in their

739
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:35,919
emails and thus we'd catch them well

740
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:38,320
you know i i suspect that jim mccatsky

741
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:41,039
and others are aware that foia exists

742
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:42,399
that if they don't want you to find

743
00:29:45,909 --> 00:29:44,399
emails that mention ufos you're not

744
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:45,919
going to find them if they don't want

745
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,600
you to find the files that were produced

746
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:49,200
by assap you're not going to find those

747
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:52,240
either so this was a ufo program find

748
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:54,159
out what they are how they work are they

749
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,279
a threat

750
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:57,600
but it also as you mentioned earlier it

751
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,679
follow the evidence where it leads and

752
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,600
it led into some really strange places

753
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:03,760
that were not anticipated by by some of

754
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:05,360
the people in the program at the

755
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,039
beginning and not by higher-ups in the

756
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:09,279
dia you know i don't think that column

757
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:10,720
or anybody else

758
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:13,279
associated with asap wanted to be

759
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,640
investigating what's called like

760
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:16,320
poltergeist cases

761
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:17,200
you know

762
00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:18,880
it's weird but you have to follow the

763
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:20,840
evidence where it leads if it

764
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,279
involves spectacular phenomena they're

765
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:25,440
reported by credible witnesses and in

766
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:28,080
some cases biological evidence physical

767
00:30:33,110 --> 00:30:30,320
evidence of effects you have to you have

768
00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:35,990
absolutely um yeah and there's and so

769
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,399
many people it seems like some people

770
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:40,960
they get hung up within the field on on

771
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:43,520
the cryptids aspect or the hitchhiker

772
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:46,000
effect and and their brain and for some

773
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:47,360
of these people it's like their brain

774
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,279
stops or something like you know they

775
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:51,600
get this element of brain freeze and

776
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:54,080
they can't pursue it any further but i i

777
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,559
really appreciate um just being

778
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,480
straightforward and honest about

779
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,320
about these accounts you know what's

780
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:02,640
coming out because you know for so many

781
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,159
years as we've talked about earlier

782
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,240
there's and i think it's one of the big

783
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:08,159
central themes of these books is that

784
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:09,919
you know for decades and decades and

785
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:12,559
decades like blue book etc

786
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:14,559
and even well-intentioned independent

787
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:16,960
researchers would edit out inconvenient

788
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:18,880
details of

789
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,720
because even well-intentioned ones

790
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:22,559
because they thought it was too weird

791
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,440
you know

792
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:25,360
even just about occupants or other

793
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:27,600
things like this and so

794
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,640
you know along those lines um

795
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:32,799
you know there's there

796
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,240
with these dirts that we were just

797
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,120
talking about there's been a recent uh

798
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:40,080
foia release um

799
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,440
and the person apparently would like to

800
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:43,440
really remain not anonymous i don't know

801
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,559
who it is um but uh a fellow named keith

802
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:48,559
basterfield who's a an independent

803
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:50,799
researcher down there in australia uh

804
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:53,519
put together a nice zip file with 36 of

805
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,000
these dirts now george you have been

806
00:32:02,230 --> 00:31:58,720
instrumental in in kind of bringing to

807
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:02,240
the public the story of these amazing

808
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:04,000
papers that cover everything from

809
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,960
biological effects of close encounters

810
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:08,159
of

811
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:10,080
with people that are experiencers and

812
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,200
then have traceable biological effects

813
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:15,600
everything from that to like wormholes

814
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:17,919
and exotic forms of space propulsion are

815
00:32:23,029 --> 00:32:20,000
covered in these documents

816
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:23,039
however i believe there were 38 dirts

817
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,399
and this was a release of 36 dirt

818
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:28,640
so george you released some of the you

819
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:31,039
were instrumental in releasing or kind

820
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,720
of putting out into the public some of

821
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:34,559
the initial dirts and of course column

822
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:35,919
you are the day-to-day operations

823
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:37,919
manager of the program that kind of

824
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:41,039
funded these papers are we going to see

825
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:42,399
is there a

826
00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:44,880
good reason why those those remaining

827
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:46,880
dirts should be

828
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:49,600
kept away from the public or do we can

829
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:52,080
we expect that those will be coming into

830
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:54,159
play in the days or months or years

831
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,679
ahead

832
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,679
well i think i've released about a dozen

833
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:59,279
of them uh just because i thought they

834
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:01,519
should be out there i i you know there

835
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,640
was uh i think uh boss app spent about a

836
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:06,480
half a million dollars on those and they

837
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,960
contacted hal put off with sort of

838
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,960
a column you can wait in any time but

839
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:12,880
help put up with sort of in charge of

840
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,799
divvying them up picking the topics and

841
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:16,720
then assigning them to

842
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:18,799
particular researchers investigators and

843
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:21,440
phds i don't know that any of them

844
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,440
outside of eric davis and hal really

845
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:25,679
knew it was part of a ufo program but

846
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:27,200
they were writing about cutting-edge

847
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,440
topics they were supposed to foresee 50

848
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,840
years or 40 years in the future on

849
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:34,559
different parts of aerospace avionics

850
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,039
materials science things of that sort

851
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:39,600
as as to establish a baseline this is

852
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:41,519
what we know now this is state of the

853
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,080
art now here's what we project state of

854
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:46,080
the art will be in 40 years so that you

855
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:47,919
had a baseline to compare

856
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:50,559
anomalous cases incidents involving ufos

857
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,360
and they tried to cover a wide gamut of

858
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:56,159
the whole um array of topics that might

859
00:34:01,269 --> 00:33:59,679
be uh investigated by asap there are two

860
00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:01,279
of those that are really sensitive one

861
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,320
is uh was a classified version of a

862
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:06,480
of a dirt that's been released

863
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:08,399
and it's technical stuff but column can

864
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:09,760
maybe address it and i think the other

865
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:12,560
one is kit green's paper about the human

866
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,879
effects uh that's been leaked i don't

867
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:17,040
think it's been officially uh released

868
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:18,720
but it has been leaked

869
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:20,320
and i you know that's some sensitive

870
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:21,599
stuff in there

871
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:24,960
um there was great concern that asap um

872
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:27,839
had to consider in the investigation of

873
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,399
individual cases where people had really

874
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,480
deleterious health effects

875
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,480
personal privacy medical privacy issues

876
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:36,480
they had to be careful about what got

877
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,000
released and i think that might be a

878
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:40,480
factor in some of it

879
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:41,919
essentially though kids paper is

880
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:43,760
disturbing you know it's it's scary as

881
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:45,520
hell and that might be why they just

882
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,159
decide to keep it keep it i did a whole

883
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:50,000
show on it

884
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:51,760
and related it to even a couple blue

885
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:54,800
book cases where you know a ufo hovers

886
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,000
over a car

887
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:58,560
the gal's body starts warming up and

888
00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:01,119
then i kind of uh correlated it to the

889
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:03,920
2021 preliminary assessment where some

890
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:07,839
show signs of rf frequency

891
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:10,560
and i was kind of curious if maybe

892
00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:13,280
the case you investigated the tic tac

893
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:16,240
case showed some rf frequencies that you

894
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:16,960
know

895
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:18,960
um kind of tied into that preliminary

896
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,280
report in the human effects report by

897
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:27,589
um the tic tac case to my knowledge did

898
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:28,640
not

899
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:31,760
um yield the sort of intensity that uh

900
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,800
of of the non-ionizing radiation that

901
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:36,720
kick green was talking about i don't

902
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:39,280
have the paper in front of me so um it's

903
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:42,079
difficult to to compare the numbers

904
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:44,160
but i do know that for example two of

905
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:47,280
the the cases that we report in our book

906
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:49,760
um um both cases

907
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:52,480
uh one case was in in oregon

908
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:54,880
uh where where a guy was was a

909
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:57,040
biotechnologist was driving

910
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:01,280
uh in tour towards bend oregon and uh

911
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:02,160
these

912
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:06,320
uh low-flying blue objects uh came very

913
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:08,560
close to his car one came two came into

914
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:11,599
the car one went through his his his

915
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:12,480
body

916
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,160
his upper upper uh abdominal cavity or

917
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:18,960
his upper thoracic cavity um

918
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:23,040
and um had a whole slew of uh biological

919
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:25,599
medical effects that were downstream

920
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:27,599
from that event

921
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,640
but to name but a few there was you know

922
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:33,200
a high high level sunburn

923
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:36,160
uh on the skin there was sort of a loss

924
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:37,280
of

925
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:42,400
hearing in in left ear and left eye

926
00:36:48,550 --> 00:36:45,359
um there was hair hair started falling

927
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:48,560
out within a week or so or a couple of

928
00:36:53,790 --> 00:36:52,079
weeks so all of these are classic signs

929
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:53,800
of uh

930
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:56,560
non-non-ionizing radiation effects

931
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:57,680
um

932
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,079
in some cases ionizing radiation effects

933
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:02,720
but we would probably distinguish

934
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,480
uh in terms of the sunburn and all of

935
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,480
that we would probably stick with

936
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:08,880
non-ionizing radiation second case

937
00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:11,520
occurred in georgia where this guy was

938
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:13,920
minding his own business in his backyard

939
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:17,359
and spotted a a low-flying uh football

940
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:19,119
field-sized triangle

941
00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:23,280
above his house his property um he uh

942
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:25,839
tried to take a photograph of it his his

943
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:28,800
cell phone died he ran inside and got a

944
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,359
as a powerful flashlight turn on the

945
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:33,599
flashlight at the at the lower end of

946
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:36,720
the at the uh the lower part of the the

947
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:39,760
triangle and instantly this blue beam

948
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:42,000
came out back from the underside of the

949
00:37:47,270 --> 00:37:45,119
craft hit him he it was so intense he

950
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:47,280
turned around and he could feel it

951
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,040
burning uh so he ran inside but um you

952
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:53,839
know a few hours later he was on the

953
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:56,320
couch feeling really ill he had a

954
00:38:02,230 --> 00:37:59,440
metallic taste in his mouth he had us

955
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:02,240
you know deep deep sunburn which osap

956
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:04,560
investigators photographed on the back

957
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:05,760
of his neck

958
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:08,400
um and you know he he went downhill

959
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:10,640
medically we had two physician

960
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:13,920
scientists as part of the assad asap

961
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:17,920
team md phds who also had tssci

962
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,280
clearances who uh you know flew out uh

963
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:23,839
for these kinds of cases but they mapped

964
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:26,560
him over many many months and his

965
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:29,760
deterioration over time but again

966
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:33,520
classic signs of non-ionizing radiation

967
00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:36,160
in both those cases so you know that the

968
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,640
the paper that kick green uh authored

969
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:40,640
was almost like prescient

970
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:42,800
in terms of predicting some of these

971
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:45,520
cases that osap would uh would

972
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:48,320
investigate within you know less than a

973
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:51,680
year of him writing this paper

974
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:54,000
back to the durge for a second you know

975
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:55,680
you mentioned about keith basterfield i

976
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:58,160
saw the some commentary from him that

977
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,359
the durds don't mention ufos i again you

978
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:03,200
know like some of the foia information

979
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:05,040
that's been requested and again it

980
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:05,920
wasn't

981
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:08,880
supposed to write about ufos they were

982
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:10,640
supposed to write about human technology

983
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:13,040
as a baseline and uh it's even been

984
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,960
suggested that well jim lakatsky must

985
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:16,320
have been running this thing without

986
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:18,400
telling his superiors at dia what he was

987
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:20,560
doing he's not telling them it's a ufo

988
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:21,520
program

989
00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:24,000
which is preposterous i mean he got

990
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:25,839
senator reid and two other senators to

991
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:27,760
approve 22 million dollars they said

992
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:30,320
it's a ufo program robert bigelow the

993
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,960
contractor said it's a ufo program hal

994
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,640
put off the scientist in charge of the

995
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:36,640
paper said it's a ufo program like

996
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:39,599
catski the program manager says it it is

997
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:40,960
column keller her the boots on the

998
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:43,119
ground manager in nevada says it's a ufo

999
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:45,839
program it's a ufo program the idea that

1000
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,480
likkatsky pulled this off scheming

1001
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:50,240
without his bosses knowing about it is

1002
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:52,320
ridiculous it's ridiculous of course

1003
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:53,520
they knew about it

1004
00:39:57,510 --> 00:39:54,839
and signed off on

1005
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,520
it thank you so much for clarifying that

1006
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:59,760
i really appreciate it um

1007
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:00,560
now

1008
00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:03,920
um

1009
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:06,560
gary nolan and jim simavan

1010
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:09,440
gary nolan of course recently

1011
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:11,040
finally confirmed that he was one of the

1012
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:13,359
central characters with a pseudonym in

1013
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,720
diana posalka's american cosmic and jim

1014
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:18,560
simavan of course

1015
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,720
kind of came out publicly

1016
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:22,720
as someone who's encountered non-human

1017
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,119
beings even hallmarks of an abduction

1018
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:27,599
case along with his wife on your show

1019
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:28,480
george

1020
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,079
um and

1021
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,160
you know anthony further elaborated that

1022
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:34,560
on her mutual friend stuart davis's show

1023
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:36,400
aliens and artists of course

1024
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:37,280
um

1025
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,040
do you do

1026
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:41,359
how do you both feel about seeing these

1027
00:40:44,550 --> 00:40:43,440
these high-profile

1028
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:44,560
um

1029
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:50,240
three-letter agencies and in high levels

1030
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:51,680
in science

1031
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:52,960
people that you've known for years

1032
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,750
how how does it make you feel and or and

1033
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:00,800
do you

1034
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:03,200
see any other people possibly doing this

1035
00:41:07,670 --> 00:41:05,760
in the days ahead

1036
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,680
well i'm encouraged we're all encouraged

1037
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:09,359
by it you know you've always been able

1038
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,800
to assume just on the basis of

1039
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,480
percentages that there were people in

1040
00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:14,160
high positions in government in the

1041
00:41:17,829 --> 00:41:16,319
pentagon and intelligence agencies i

1042
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:17,839
don't know what the percentage of people

1043
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:20,480
it is that have had close encounters or

1044
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:23,119
more bizarre experiences but it is a

1045
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,960
fairly substantial little slice and you

1046
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:26,720
knew that it had to be true for them as

1047
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:29,040
well there's been a core group of people

1048
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:30,400
for a long time

1049
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,400
that we know names that we know now

1050
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:34,640
who've been interested in this forever

1051
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:37,200
help put off kit green john alexander

1052
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:38,720
folks like that who put their

1053
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:40,800
reputations on the line to say yeah

1054
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:42,160
we're interested in it we've seen

1055
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:44,079
glimpses of it while we're on the inside

1056
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:46,000
working for the government and we've

1057
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:47,520
taken it outside the government to try

1058
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,280
to figure this stuff out and they get

1059
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:51,680
nothing but [\h__\h] from the ufo world

1060
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,920
and beaten up you guys are spies your

1061
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:55,760
spooks your disinformation agents the

1062
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:57,440
same stuff that's happening to louis

1063
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:58,720
ondo right now

1064
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:59,680
so

1065
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:01,599
i applaud jim simbavan for coming

1066
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:03,599
forward and saying it

1067
00:42:07,109 --> 00:42:05,599
we know that there are plenty of others

1068
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,119
who have had the same kinds of

1069
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:09,440
experiences who could come forward but

1070
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:11,200
they see how people are treated when

1071
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:12,720
they come out and say this stuff you

1072
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:14,000
know and

1073
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:16,000
i think there's a lot of trepidation for

1074
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:17,440
people who have not yet come out and

1075
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:19,119
told their stories

1076
00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:20,720
well for the record they're free to come

1077
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,480
on my show i mean

1078
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:24,480
i mean uh

1079
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:26,960
one uh you know i think of one in

1080
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:29,599
particular instance where uh it was uh

1081
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,520
mr john ramirez i've had on this show a

1082
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:33,119
couple times um

1083
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,880
and he wasn't treated so kind and that

1084
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:36,560
was my major on a different show and

1085
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:38,880
that was my major point at the time was

1086
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,040
um if you want more people to come out

1087
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,440
and talk about their experiences

1088
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:45,599
um you have to have a level of respect

1089
00:42:50,390 --> 00:42:48,400
in in dealing with them whether you know

1090
00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:50,400
sean espjorn hargens is is one of my

1091
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:52,640
favorite dudes to listen to

1092
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,960
um and he always says

1093
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:56,160
you know

1094
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:58,000
take things seriously but you can hold

1095
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:59,119
it lightly

1096
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:01,359
um and and i think that's perfect a

1097
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:04,240
perfect way to approach it one thing um

1098
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:08,160
is we wanted to hear com's response on

1099
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:12,240
on that as well jay says

1100
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:13,680
what was the

1101
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:15,760
oh yeah i was i was wondering if column

1102
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:18,720
had anything uh in response also to jim

1103
00:43:23,829 --> 00:43:20,800
some of anne or gary nolan's

1104
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:23,839
um kind of coming out of the

1105
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:26,800
uh of the closets in their own ways as

1106
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:28,720
experiencers and

1107
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:30,640
and with the research that that they've

1108
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:32,560
been doing lately

1109
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:34,800
yeah i i i

1110
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,560
also applaud um them sort of coming out

1111
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,720
like this because uh

1112
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:42,880
i think you know somebody like gary

1113
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,280
nolan who is sort of in the at the top

1114
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:46,800
of his game

1115
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:50,480
in as a professor of uh of immunology

1116
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:53,440
at stanford university and i mean this

1117
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:55,520
this guy is

1118
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:58,240
among the the top you know

1119
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,119
probably 20 immunologists in the world

1120
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,000
um so for a guy um who's that much of a

1121
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:06,240
heavyweight to come out

1122
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,280
uh with with with um these kinds of

1123
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,920
details i've known gary for many years

1124
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:13,760
and you know there's there's been a lot

1125
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:15,920
of discussions behind the scene

1126
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:18,880
uh but um you know it's it's

1127
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:22,400
really gratifying to see that level of

1128
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:25,200
discourse beginning to happen out in the

1129
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:26,160
open

1130
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:29,200
um and just like jim cenavan too i mean

1131
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:32,800
jim simavon has a tremendously long

1132
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:35,760
uh and well-decorated history as as a

1133
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:36,800
part of the

1134
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:39,520
central intelligence agency again for

1135
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,960
for him to come

1136
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,200
um out into the public like that is is

1137
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:45,440
very gratifying um you know jacques

1138
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:47,680
valley wrote this book at the invisible

1139
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:50,240
college back in 1975

1140
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:52,560
and many of the people who have sort of

1141
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:55,920
kept a low profile over decades because

1142
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,280
of the kind of

1143
00:45:01,990 --> 00:44:59,520
toxicity associated with the ufo

1144
00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:02,000
phenomenon and also because that

1145
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:05,200
toxicity can actually negatively impact

1146
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:06,640
your career

1147
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:09,440
unless you're very very very well placed

1148
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:11,920
it can have very negative ramifications

1149
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:14,720
on your career so i really do

1150
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:16,079
applaud

1151
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:17,760
you know these people

1152
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:20,720
sort of having the courage to to come

1153
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,200
out but you know it's really unfortunate

1154
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:25,440
to see the sort of ufo

1155
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:28,400
blogosphere and and the twitter mania

1156
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,200
that

1157
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,599
follows when when these people

1158
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:33,760
actually report on what what's what's

1159
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:34,960
going on

1160
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,000
um it's not exactly an incentive to to

1161
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:39,599
do this i remember

1162
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:43,200
um that the then head of the uap task

1163
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,640
force

1164
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:47,040
right after the the three initial videos

1165
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:49,520
had been released i remember talking to

1166
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:51,200
him on a zoom call

1167
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:53,520
um you know and it was after this sort

1168
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:54,319
of

1169
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,160
um extremely hostile negative reaction

1170
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:00,400
from the public regarding these videos i

1171
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,720
mean his whole thing was saying you know

1172
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:04,400
we went through a lot of trouble to get

1173
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:07,040
these uh these videos released and here

1174
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:10,079
we are just getting absolutely lambasted

1175
00:46:13,430 --> 00:46:11,040
from

1176
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:13,440
um a bunch of people with

1177
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:14,960
um you know

1178
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:18,000
severe access to grind and he said look

1179
00:46:21,829 --> 00:46:19,920
you know the people i'm talking to

1180
00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:21,839
behind the scenes are saying

1181
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:24,079
why on earth should we go through all of

1182
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,599
this trouble in order to be absolutely

1183
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:30,240
sort of lambasted and

1184
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:31,520
vilified

1185
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:32,880
from people

1186
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:35,040
who have an axe to grind or who have

1187
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:37,680
some particular agenda it's not exactly

1188
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,720
a sort of a a permissive environment to

1189
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:43,200
uh to do this so i would say the same

1190
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:46,000
thing about people who are behind the

1191
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,480
scenes and working diligently on this

1192
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:50,400
these kinds of phenomena there it is

1193
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:53,040
there is no incentive to actually go

1194
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:56,560
public um because the the reception is

1195
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:58,560
usually hostile

1196
00:47:01,750 --> 00:47:00,079
you can survive

1197
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:01,760
what the media does to you now they're

1198
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:03,520
sort of getting used to mainstream media

1199
00:47:08,069 --> 00:47:06,000
getting used to ufo stories coming out

1200
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:08,079
and you can take the debunkers because

1201
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:10,079
although there are a lot of those they

1202
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:11,839
don't really have that much

1203
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:14,640
um horsepower behind them but it's the

1204
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:16,720
ufo people the true believers who are

1205
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:19,040
the most vicious and nastiest and stay

1206
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:20,800
on this day after day and just pound

1207
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:23,440
away at anybody and their reputation

1208
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:25,440
um because the truth doesn't fit their

1209
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:27,760
particular niche

1210
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,079
yeah it's it's unfortunate how of the

1211
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:32,160
people in the ufo world at least and i

1212
00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:33,680
know this is general and they're still

1213
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,160
good people in the community but

1214
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,400
um towards the people that uh you know

1215
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:40,000
that you're that you're speaking about

1216
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,400
that they act as if they're a boss you

1217
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:44,559
know i want you to bring my evidence and

1218
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:46,079
i want you to bring it this way with

1219
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:47,839
these receipts and i want you to turn it

1220
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:49,839
in at this time because if you don't i'm

1221
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,880
gonna send it back and unfortunately

1222
00:47:56,309 --> 00:47:54,640
for them that's just not how it works

1223
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:56,319
and they're ruining it for people like

1224
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:58,880
myself or other experiencers who really

1225
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:01,359
are desperately searching uh for answers

1226
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:03,520
because they've been through anomalous

1227
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:05,680
experiences that uh

1228
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:07,839
you know have kind of given them a bit

1229
00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:09,760
of ontological shock and and they're

1230
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:10,559
really

1231
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:12,319
relying on people to have courage and

1232
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:15,040
guts to to come out and say something in

1233
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:17,440
these uh twitter trolls so to speak or

1234
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:18,960
butthurt the bunkers which is my

1235
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:20,559
favorite terms that i've heard from you

1236
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:24,480
george um ruin it for people so yeah

1237
00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:27,680
i i appreciate it as well i mean as as

1238
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:29,680
um one of the partners with stuart and

1239
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:32,079
the experiencer group we you know within

1240
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:33,920
that private community we're often

1241
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:35,119
dealing with

1242
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:37,200
people that have been in the military

1243
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:38,800
been in other

1244
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,280
areas that way and and

1245
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:43,359
you know there's been a lot of

1246
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:45,119
people on the fence about whether they

1247
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:46,880
should come forward even to people in

1248
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:48,800
their own family about these things and

1249
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:51,839
much less you know the the terrible

1250
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:53,599
world of twitter and things like this

1251
00:48:59,190 --> 00:48:55,680
right um and

1252
00:49:02,470 --> 00:48:59,200
of course last fall um i was i can't

1253
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,480
like i came out with my own account via

1254
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:04,880
ralph blumenthal who profiled me in a

1255
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:07,119
story that was supposed to come out in

1256
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:09,359
the new york times and it had gone on

1257
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:10,880
for months and eventually had to be

1258
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:13,200
published in the debrief because

1259
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:16,079
because a new york times editor acted as

1260
00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:17,599
one of these goalkeepers one of these

1261
00:49:23,430 --> 00:49:20,079
goalies that shawn's talking about as

1262
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:23,440
uh in in in a more professional kind of

1263
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:25,920
situation um oh

1264
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:27,280
sean did you have a question or should i

1265
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:30,400
go into mine before the end here

1266
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:32,800
well i did have a question and i wanted

1267
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:33,599
to

1268
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:35,680
you know i i know it's

1269
00:49:40,390 --> 00:49:38,400
hard to say in in a conversation i heard

1270
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:40,400
calling me talking with mr uh jeffrey

1271
00:49:44,309 --> 00:49:41,520
mislove

1272
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:44,319
um about how unfortunate it was

1273
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:46,160
unfortunate it was that the program

1274
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:48,559
stopped when it did because you were

1275
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:49,920
you're getting kind of close you're even

1276
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:51,599
talking about how you were tracking

1277
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:54,160
things down a specific line and using

1278
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:55,520
like almost hunting cameras and

1279
00:49:59,190 --> 00:49:57,119
everything and you were ready to

1280
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:59,200
hopefully get some some footage of

1281
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:00,960
something um

1282
00:50:05,349 --> 00:50:03,599
in all this time

1283
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:05,359
all the short amount of time i should

1284
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:07,920
say that that you spent in this program

1285
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,200
um

1286
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:11,520
were you able to gather

1287
00:50:19,510 --> 00:50:14,880
any idea if this sort of thing is a

1288
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:19,520
threat is it not a threat is it um

1289
00:50:23,829 --> 00:50:21,280
and then the entities is it all the

1290
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,839
above or are they one thing

1291
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:25,680
you know um you know you're seeing

1292
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:28,319
dinosaurs with beaver tails have you

1293
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,160
ever seen a grey alien

1294
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:32,400
uh wolves sometimes you shoot them and

1295
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:33,839
they bleed sometimes you shoot them and

1296
00:50:38,829 --> 00:50:37,040
they don't it's like how do you even

1297
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:38,839
work on something like that it seems

1298
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:41,359
impossible which i thank you for but

1299
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:43,280
yeah so threat or not threat one entity

1300
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:44,800
or multiple

1301
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:46,640
well i guess um

1302
00:50:53,910 --> 00:50:48,559
the the

1303
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:53,920
the osap program was

1304
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:56,880
initially at least we we were mandated

1305
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:57,920
to

1306
00:51:03,270 --> 00:51:00,640
produce a threat assessment report

1307
00:51:05,430 --> 00:51:03,280
and one of those uh one of those reports

1308
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:05,440
that went in one of those 104 or

1309
00:51:10,309 --> 00:51:07,920
whatever it was reports that went into

1310
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,319
defense intelligence agency was actually

1311
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:12,480
a threat assessment report but the

1312
00:51:16,230 --> 00:51:15,119
conclusion that we came to

1313
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:16,240
was

1314
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:23,839
regarding a ufo agenda or a intent

1315
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:26,720
to definitively come down on the side of

1316
00:51:32,069 --> 00:51:29,119
that these this phenomena represents a

1317
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:32,079
threat we did go as far to say that this

1318
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:34,640
this phenomenon is a threat to human

1319
00:51:38,710 --> 00:51:35,920
health

1320
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:38,720
that's a very distinct category of

1321
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:41,599
threat because it certainly is does not

1322
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,280
imply a threat to

1323
00:51:48,309 --> 00:51:45,359
national security of the united states

1324
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:48,319
it may just simply imply being in the

1325
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:50,160
wrong place at the wrong time it's just

1326
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:52,880
like you know somebody wandering by a

1327
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:55,680
radar installation and accidentally

1328
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:58,079
getting beamed with high-intensity radio

1329
00:52:02,230 --> 00:52:01,520
waves um you know so somebody who ends

1330
00:52:04,309 --> 00:52:02,240
up

1331
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:04,319
sort of being in the wrong place and

1332
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:07,599
happens to have a blue orb uh flying

1333
00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:11,040
through their body uh or or getting uh

1334
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:13,520
getting a sort of a knee-jerk

1335
00:52:17,349 --> 00:52:15,839
reaction from a triangular craft that's

1336
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:17,359
hovering over their

1337
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:20,160
um their property um it there's

1338
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:22,720
insufficient evidence from what we could

1339
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:23,680
see

1340
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:26,000
to define a threat to the national

1341
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:29,359
security of the united states definitely

1342
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:31,359
bad for your health

1343
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:34,160
if you're in a in the vicinity of a blue

1344
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:36,559
orb just run like hell in the opposite

1345
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:39,280
direction um because it's probably not

1346
00:52:42,549 --> 00:52:41,680
going to be very good for your health so

1347
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:42,559
um

1348
00:52:48,549 --> 00:52:45,520
that's kind of the extent of of where we

1349
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:48,559
were uh we were and what we reported out

1350
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:50,880
to the defense intelligence agency we

1351
00:52:55,349 --> 00:52:52,559
just didn't have enough data to say it

1352
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:55,359
was a threat um the second part of your

1353
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:57,119
question um

1354
00:53:02,069 --> 00:53:00,800
is really sort of when you look at these

1355
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:02,079
hot spots

1356
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:03,280
and you know

1357
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:07,280
we spent sort of between 1996

1358
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:10,720
and 2016 that's 20 years

1359
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:12,880
uh our group spent on the property

1360
00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:15,200
brandon fugal is that has now spent

1361
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:17,680
another six years on the property a lot

1362
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:19,680
of overlapping testimony a lot of

1363
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:22,880
overlapping data and effects on you know

1364
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:25,599
electronics and all of that

1365
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:26,720
what we

1366
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:29,599
came up with i guess was that

1367
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:31,839
there is a central sort of

1368
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:34,880
nuts and bolts ufo phenomenon

1369
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:37,760
that's in the in these the vicinity of

1370
00:53:42,390 --> 00:53:40,880
these uh these places and overlaid on

1371
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:42,400
that there is a tremendous

1372
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:45,920
sort of part of normal disneyland of

1373
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:46,720
uh

1374
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,559
effects on

1375
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:52,640
you know human perception being

1376
00:53:57,349 --> 00:53:55,359
distorted and all of that the fact that

1377
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:57,359
they co-locate

1378
00:54:01,750 --> 00:53:59,680
and uh you know the fact that they're

1379
00:54:04,309 --> 00:54:01,760
happening at the same time

1380
00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:04,319
as nuts and bolts ufos are flying over

1381
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:07,040
the property is that enough evidence to

1382
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,079
say that they're uh probably related i

1383
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:12,400
don't know i mean but if you expand that

1384
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:15,440
whole concept and you go out to people

1385
00:54:20,790 --> 00:54:18,319
to places like dulce new mexico or the

1386
00:54:22,870 --> 00:54:20,800
areas around malstrom air force base

1387
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:22,880
that that got inundated in the late

1388
00:54:29,349 --> 00:54:26,559
1970s with all manner of nuts and bolts

1389
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:29,359
ufos that actually were sort of

1390
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:31,599
interfering with the nuclear weapons

1391
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:33,599
arsenal but at the same time you were

1392
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:35,760
getting reports of bigfoot and you're

1393
00:54:40,150 --> 00:54:38,079
getting reports of paranormal effects on

1394
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:40,160
weird creatures and all of that in the

1395
00:54:43,109 --> 00:54:42,000
same sort of context

1396
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:43,119
you know

1397
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:44,960
the more of these cases that you look

1398
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:47,599
closely at the more the correlation

1399
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:48,640
exists

1400
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:50,880
i don't know if that's that correlation

1401
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:53,119
is strong enough to say

1402
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:55,359
uh you know correlation cause is

1403
00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:56,559
causation

1404
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:58,880
i don't know um

1405
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:00,240
but

1406
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:03,440
we think that the overlap is very very

1407
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:04,880
compelling

1408
00:55:09,270 --> 00:55:06,319
i think you could say you know if

1409
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:09,280
there's not direct evidence of a direct

1410
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:11,280
threat to national security it certainly

1411
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:13,440
is a national security matter when you

1412
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,240
have ufos hovering over nuclear missile

1413
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:18,240
bases the northern tier cases and

1414
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:20,160
disabling these missiles in case you

1415
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,839
needed them you wouldn't have them that

1416
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,520
is an issue for national security and

1417
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,599
the asap program by the way

1418
00:55:30,390 --> 00:55:27,440
delved into that those northern tier

1419
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:30,400
cases in a big way when you have ufos

1420
00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:33,839
over ussr nuclear missile bases icbm

1421
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:36,319
bases targeted to the u.s and those

1422
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,240
missiles are suddenly engaged they're

1423
00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:40,400
ready to launch through no fault of the

1424
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,240
russians that they can't control them

1425
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:44,400
that is a national security matter

1426
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:46,720
the russia whoever these ufos are they

1427
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:48,640
didn't blow up any nuclear weapons they

1428
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,480
didn't shoot russian weapons at us and

1429
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:52,640
start world war three but they certainly

1430
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:55,040
showed a mastery over our technology

1431
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:57,040
they fly over sensitive military

1432
00:56:01,670 --> 00:55:59,200
installations nuclear power plants their

1433
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:01,680
indications they follow nuclear aircraft

1434
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:03,839
carriers wherever they go they've messed

1435
00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:06,319
with ships they've been you know they

1436
00:56:10,470 --> 00:56:08,240
have no respect for any national

1437
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,480
boundaries or what we could consider to

1438
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,559
be sensitive installations so is it a

1439
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:14,640
national security matter yes it should

1440
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:16,880
be studied further to figure out we

1441
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:18,960
don't know what the agenda is or what

1442
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:21,119
their time frame is you know we hear

1443
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:23,520
these alien editorials where they will

1444
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,200
tell contactees abductees

1445
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:29,440
you better clean up the planet any day

1446
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:31,440
now something big is going to happen and

1447
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:34,000
then 50 years go by and nothing does we

1448
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:35,280
don't know what their time frame is

1449
00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:37,119
maybe 50 years is a week and a half to

1450
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:38,720
them you know so

1451
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:39,920
right

1452
00:56:44,230 --> 00:56:42,799
i love that i i mean i i love the part

1453
00:56:46,870 --> 00:56:44,240
of that where we're thinking about the

1454
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:46,880
time scale of different beings and and

1455
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:49,359
the consciousness or just or what their

1456
00:56:53,349 --> 00:56:51,200
experience is like versus ours i think

1457
00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:53,359
that's a really important component

1458
00:56:57,910 --> 00:56:56,079
along those lines uh column um you've

1459
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,920
been working with the bigelow institute

1460
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:59,520
of consciousness studies lately and of

1461
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:01,119
course last year the big news out of

1462
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:03,599
that was that amazing essay contest that

1463
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:06,079
jeffrey mishlov did such an incredible

1464
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:07,920
multimedia essay with we've talked to

1465
00:57:12,309 --> 00:57:09,839
other people like nick cook that were

1466
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:12,319
that were also finalists and winners of

1467
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:15,440
the essay contest um now one thing here

1468
00:57:20,390 --> 00:57:18,720
is that if if there's a story with

1469
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:20,400
with regard to these two books one of

1470
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:22,400
the other kind of layers of this is that

1471
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:25,040
if you follow bigelow's programs and if

1472
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:27,440
you caught follow column kelleher you're

1473
00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:29,839
gonna find really cool

1474
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,799
stuff

1475
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:32,559
happening you're gonna find really

1476
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:35,280
interesting programs right um george

1477
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:37,599
have you been following the work with um

1478
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:38,640
that

1479
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:40,720
have you been following the lead and to

1480
00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:42,799
these explorations of consciousness and

1481
00:57:49,829 --> 00:57:46,319
column is there room within uh within

1482
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:49,839
bix for these kind of wilded out um

1483
00:57:55,349 --> 00:57:52,240
stories you know these kind of cases

1484
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:55,359
have you been pursuing um some of these

1485
00:57:59,430 --> 00:57:57,119
um leading edges

1486
00:58:01,750 --> 00:57:59,440
over there and what do we expect from

1487
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:01,760
the days to come let me ask answer this

1488
00:58:05,670 --> 00:58:03,599
first because my answer will be shorter

1489
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:05,680
have i been following it yes uh mr

1490
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:07,440
bigelow and column brought me into the

1491
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:09,280
conversations pretty early on about

1492
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:10,400
vicks

1493
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,240
we had a couple of retreats at some cool

1494
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:14,559
places in montana and to kick it around

1495
00:58:18,470 --> 00:58:16,319
and they put me on their

1496
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:18,480
reading list i'm i can't flip this

1497
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:20,720
around but i got about 106 books sitting

1498
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:23,280
here that i've only read about

1499
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:25,760
20 of them in my spare time but they've

1500
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:27,680
they've got this incredible library that

1501
00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:30,240
has been designed to bring all of our

1502
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:32,480
elevate all of our consciousness about

1503
00:58:37,109 --> 00:58:34,799
consciousness so i'm not as smart as

1504
00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:37,119
these guys so i i do my best to get my

1505
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:39,280
head around it and how it relates to the

1506
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:40,720
stories that i've followed for a long

1507
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:44,160
time um ufos and and related mysteries

1508
00:58:47,670 --> 00:58:46,640
uh i i'm thrilled to be part of the

1509
00:58:50,789 --> 00:58:47,680
journey

1510
00:58:53,109 --> 00:58:50,799
but again with my limited capacities i'm

1511
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:53,119
a junior partner in any of this stuff

1512
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:56,720
right on thank you column

1513
00:59:02,710 --> 00:58:59,280
so your your question is is pertaining

1514
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:02,720
to uh the overlap between

1515
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:06,319
uh the bix mission and the uh the the

1516
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:09,280
previous programs is

1517
00:59:13,349 --> 00:59:10,400
because

1518
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:13,359
i mean there's manifestly

1519
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:15,920
uh the more you look into uh some of

1520
00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:19,119
these ufo programs or ufo incidents

1521
00:59:23,510 --> 00:59:21,520
um you can see that there's definitely

1522
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:23,520
overlap between

1523
00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:25,680
what you know people in the

1524
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:27,680
consciousness field call the survival of

1525
00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:31,280
consciousness after death paradigm

1526
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:34,160
you know there's been numerous

1527
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:37,520
uh sort of overlaps even with uh

1528
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:39,599
skin walkers at the pentagon

1529
00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,040
sort of group of people who had the the

1530
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:45,440
incidents happen on uh skin skidmarker

1531
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:46,480
ranch

1532
00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:48,400
brought something home with them and

1533
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:49,280
then

1534
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:52,319
their kids started having unusual

1535
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:54,799
phenomena well some of those phenomena

1536
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:57,599
involve seeing dead people for example

1537
01:00:02,069 --> 00:59:59,359
um you know there's there's quite a few

1538
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:02,079
stories around whitley strieber has a

1539
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:05,040
very famous story of of during the

1540
01:00:10,230 --> 01:00:06,880
height of his abduction

1541
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:10,240
he saw this this friend of his in the

1542
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:12,400
middle of the abduction phenomenon only

1543
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:14,960
to find out a week or two later that

1544
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:17,520
this guy was actually dead at the time

1545
01:00:22,630 --> 01:00:20,240
and so so there is a a

1546
01:00:25,109 --> 01:00:22,640
notable overlap between

1547
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:25,119
uh the survival of consciousness after

1548
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:29,760
death and also the um you know the ufo

1549
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:33,119
effects and ufo phenomena in general and

1550
01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:35,440
i should also say that that the whole

1551
01:00:41,190 --> 01:00:38,160
sort of paradigm shift that's occurring

1552
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:41,200
within the human consciousness research

1553
01:00:46,789 --> 01:00:44,480
arena is very very compelling it's kind

1554
01:00:48,950 --> 01:00:46,799
of flipping everything on its head

1555
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:48,960
and and saying that consciousness is

1556
01:00:52,069 --> 01:00:50,000
prime

1557
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:52,079
and you know you've you've got sort of

1558
01:00:57,910 --> 01:00:54,799
people like jeffrey kripal who was on on

1559
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:57,920
the board of of bix who is being very

1560
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:01,200
very overt and open about the the fact

1561
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:04,000
that you know consciousness is prime

1562
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:07,920
and um is is sort of the leading edge of

1563
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,160
of of this endeavor so i would see you

1564
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,319
know in the future a convergence

1565
01:01:18,309 --> 01:01:16,240
happening between

1566
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:18,319
the uh this

1567
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,400
what's getting more and more mainstream

1568
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:22,319
in terms of consciousness

1569
01:01:28,069 --> 01:01:25,680
uh research and the uh survival of

1570
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:28,079
consciousness after death and some of

1571
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:30,240
these aspects of the ufo phenomena

1572
01:01:35,510 --> 01:01:33,760
because ultimately you know um

1573
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:35,520
we can't see

1574
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:37,200
dead people or at least most of us can't

1575
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:38,640
see dead people

1576
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:41,200
um but they can see us from all of what

1577
01:01:46,150 --> 01:01:43,040
the literature is telling us

1578
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:46,160
uh ufos appear and disappear out of our

1579
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:49,440
our uh perceptual you know or our

1580
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:52,079
eyesight and our hearing so they appear

1581
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:54,160
and disappear are they

1582
01:02:00,069 --> 01:01:57,039
going and coming from the same places i

1583
01:02:00,789 --> 01:02:00,079
mean is there an overlap in terms of you

1584
01:02:02,950 --> 01:02:00,799
know

1585
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:02,960
use a crude word location

1586
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:06,400
or is is there a

1587
01:02:11,029 --> 01:02:07,680
consciousness

1588
01:02:13,589 --> 01:02:11,039
sort of uh commonality that links all of

1589
01:02:14,710 --> 01:02:13,599
these fields and you know our tendency

1590
01:02:20,789 --> 01:02:14,720
to

1591
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:20,799
is ufos and this is bigfoot and this is

1592
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:22,960
survival of consciousness after death

1593
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:25,920
that may be our tiny brains

1594
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,319
trying to grapple with a picture that's

1595
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:30,640
actually a hell of a lot bigger than we

1596
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:33,280
can presently comprehend

1597
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:36,160
and so i i do see in the future a

1598
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:39,359
convergence that uh that could happen by

1599
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:40,720
the way just to add

1600
01:02:44,950 --> 01:02:42,720
give uh your credit where it's due to

1601
01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:44,960
robert bigelow and column is that this

1602
01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:46,799
is not a new development you go back to

1603
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:49,119
1995 when robert bigelow established

1604
01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:50,079
nids

1605
01:02:54,309 --> 01:02:52,640
and then column came on in 96 with these

1606
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,319
other amazing people edgar mitchell

1607
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,640
jacques valet how put off kit green a

1608
01:03:00,710 --> 01:02:58,720
lot of really amazing folks uh this

1609
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:00,720
brain trust but they had dual missions

1610
01:03:05,829 --> 01:03:03,599
it was it became a ufo kind of endeavor

1611
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:05,839
but in the beginning it was ufos what's

1612
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:08,000
the deal are there real is there life

1613
01:03:10,789 --> 01:03:09,039
elsewhere

1614
01:03:12,549 --> 01:03:10,799
that's half of it and the other half was

1615
01:03:15,029 --> 01:03:12,559
does consciousness survive physical

1616
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:15,039
death that was the twin goals of nids in

1617
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:17,520
the beginning eventually the ufo sort of

1618
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:19,520
dominated the discussion then it went to

1619
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:21,119
skinwalker ranch but that's where they

1620
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:22,319
started so

1621
01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:24,000
for the robert bigelow this and for

1622
01:03:28,150 --> 01:03:25,520
column this is actually coming full

1623
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,160
circle back to where they started

1624
01:03:32,630 --> 01:03:30,480
exactly um the original national

1625
01:03:34,950 --> 01:03:32,640
institute for discovery science had

1626
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:34,960
people like ian stevenson who was the

1627
01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:38,000
sort of premier uh reincarnation

1628
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:40,160
researcher he was on the science board

1629
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:43,440
bruce grayson uh sort of the the diane

1630
01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:45,839
of near-death experience research was

1631
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:49,680
also on the the board of ned's uh emily

1632
01:03:54,789 --> 01:03:52,400
emily cook now emily kelly who is

1633
01:03:57,109 --> 01:03:54,799
associated with the division of

1634
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:57,119
perceptual studies at the university of

1635
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:59,119
virginia she was on the board so there

1636
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:01,440
was a whole slew of people

1637
01:04:04,870 --> 01:04:03,760
uh we we had a very interesting

1638
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:04,880
conference

1639
01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:06,880
up in the mount charleston hotel i don't

1640
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:08,480
know if you were you there george for

1641
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:12,000
that 1997 it was a it was a conference

1642
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:14,559
on survival of consciousness after death

1643
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:17,200
and um you know you had a lot of

1644
01:04:22,870 --> 01:04:19,839
uh the researchers involved in that so

1645
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:22,880
nids um nids really

1646
01:04:28,950 --> 01:04:26,160
had so much bandwidth in terms of it was

1647
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:28,960
like a an avalanche we had to make a

1648
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:30,720
choice between

1649
01:04:35,029 --> 01:04:32,000
um

1650
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:35,039
focusing our energies on ufos or

1651
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:37,280
focusing our energies on the survival of

1652
01:04:42,870 --> 01:04:39,599
consciousness after death but you know

1653
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:42,880
here we are sort of 25 years later and

1654
01:04:47,829 --> 01:04:44,960
you know there's more and more evidence

1655
01:04:48,789 --> 01:04:47,839
that seems to be coming coming along

1656
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:48,799
that

1657
01:04:56,789 --> 01:04:52,400
particular

1658
01:04:59,910 --> 01:04:56,799
um you know subjects may be slightly

1659
01:05:02,630 --> 01:04:59,920
closer than we originally thought

1660
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:02,640
you know um oddly enough my experience

1661
01:05:06,069 --> 01:05:04,720
that brought me to this place of of

1662
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:06,079
having this show

1663
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:10,160
was a kind of a complete

1664
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:13,839
mixture of seeing uh ufos and

1665
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:15,680
having a consciousness experience that

1666
01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:18,559
maybe one day i'll tell you about um

1667
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:19,359
but

1668
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:20,640
and i wouldn't have been here if it was

1669
01:05:26,069 --> 01:05:22,799
just one or the other you know it really

1670
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:26,079
was both that that rocked me um

1671
01:05:29,910 --> 01:05:28,160
you know we're up against the hour i i

1672
01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:29,920
don't know how much time you have

1673
01:05:34,150 --> 01:05:31,520
um

1674
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,160
but one question i would shoot myself in

1675
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:36,880
if you have time for this question um i

1676
01:05:40,390 --> 01:05:38,160
would shoot myself in the foot if i

1677
01:05:42,789 --> 01:05:40,400
didn't ask is uh where do we go from

1678
01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:42,799
here people that aren't you know um

1679
01:05:47,829 --> 01:05:45,280
actively involved in in studying things

1680
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:47,839
on the level you are or investigating on

1681
01:05:53,750 --> 01:05:50,799
the level you are george what what do we

1682
01:05:55,589 --> 01:05:53,760
do what do we do to um

1683
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:55,599
you know do our part to put our best

1684
01:05:59,670 --> 01:05:56,880
foot forward

1685
01:06:02,150 --> 01:05:59,680
in helping us move along

1686
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:02,160
i know for me uh you know i i take a lot

1687
01:06:06,309 --> 01:06:04,799
of uh cues from people like colum and

1688
01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:06,319
jim lakatsky

1689
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:08,720
uh robert bigelow you know i've been

1690
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:10,880
allowed to be a fly on the wall for some

1691
01:06:14,789 --> 01:06:12,880
of these programs some some of what they

1692
01:06:16,309 --> 01:06:14,799
produce not all of it because it is

1693
01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:16,319
sensitive and the people who were

1694
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:18,640
directly involved had class security

1695
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:20,720
clearances that i didn't have so i am

1696
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,960
privileged to have been allowed to know

1697
01:06:26,150 --> 01:06:24,640
some of what's going on

1698
01:06:27,190 --> 01:06:26,160
i can tell you that what these guys

1699
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:27,200
produced

1700
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:29,280
is absolutely astonishing when you look

1701
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:31,520
at the depth and breadth of the work

1702
01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:34,960
that they put together in in 27 months

1703
01:06:38,549 --> 01:06:36,640
it's astounding and the public has not

1704
01:06:40,950 --> 01:06:38,559
seen it i don't think congress has seen

1705
01:06:42,870 --> 01:06:40,960
it there's a gigantic pile of stuff we

1706
01:06:45,109 --> 01:06:42,880
wrote this book to let people know just

1707
01:06:46,789 --> 01:06:45,119
how much is out there give them an idea

1708
01:06:48,309 --> 01:06:46,799
of just how big it is

1709
01:06:50,789 --> 01:06:48,319
we want to do more on that you know we

1710
01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:50,799
have plans to do more of that stuff and

1711
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,240
and try to reveal

1712
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:54,480
uh more specifics about what they dug

1713
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:56,640
into there's some great cases that are

1714
01:07:00,630 --> 01:06:58,960
reported incidents in that book that

1715
01:07:02,069 --> 01:07:00,640
have received no attention at all it's

1716
01:07:04,630 --> 01:07:02,079
like it just went over people's heads

1717
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:04,640
but they have so much more that was

1718
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:05,760
produced

1719
01:07:09,190 --> 01:07:07,599
that no one has seen you know part of

1720
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,200
what is described in the book is jacques

1721
01:07:13,510 --> 01:07:11,280
ballet's data warehouse these multiple

1722
01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:13,520
layers of information and they you know

1723
01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:15,599
if osap had been allowed to continue

1724
01:07:19,270 --> 01:07:17,440
they were going to add this artificial

1725
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:19,280
intelligence this ai component that

1726
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:20,880
would allow you to collate and make

1727
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:22,799
sense of all this stuff and pull it from

1728
01:07:26,549 --> 01:07:25,119
different categories and files

1729
01:07:27,430 --> 01:07:26,559
and understand it

1730
01:07:29,910 --> 01:07:27,440
that should have been allowed to

1731
01:07:32,069 --> 01:07:29,920
continue that information is still there

1732
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:32,079
and if somebody had the guts to

1733
01:07:36,549 --> 01:07:34,720
reinstigate something like ossap

1734
01:07:39,109 --> 01:07:36,559
it's right there to use start all over

1735
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:39,119
again this program was ended just when

1736
01:07:41,670 --> 01:07:40,160
they were getting to the point where

1737
01:07:43,190 --> 01:07:41,680
they can make some real progress and

1738
01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:43,200
it's a damn shame

1739
01:07:46,710 --> 01:07:45,280
here we are now back to have a tiny

1740
01:07:48,470 --> 01:07:46,720
little program in government we've got

1741
01:07:50,789 --> 01:07:48,480
to worry about whether the pentagon is

1742
01:07:52,309 --> 01:07:50,799
going to allow them to dig into where's

1743
01:07:54,309 --> 01:07:52,319
the hidden goodies where's the meta

1744
01:07:56,549 --> 01:07:54,319
materials are their crashes or were

1745
01:07:58,150 --> 01:07:56,559
their bodies uh you know i think there's

1746
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:58,160
probably going to be a lot of resistance

1747
01:08:02,150 --> 01:08:00,000
to that there's going to be a resistance

1748
01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:02,160
to delving into these strange areas that

1749
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:04,319
asap went into because they're too darn

1750
01:08:07,829 --> 01:08:05,760
weird how do you explain that in a

1751
01:08:09,430 --> 01:08:07,839
budget meeting that you're looking into

1752
01:08:11,430 --> 01:08:09,440
something that sounds like poltergeist

1753
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:11,440
whether it is or not

1754
01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:13,359
it's a shame i you know but there's so

1755
01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:14,160
much

1756
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:15,520
potential

1757
01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:18,480
that was collected by asap that's still

1758
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:20,960
there to be analyzed and utilized and

1759
01:08:25,269 --> 01:08:23,040
some kind of a program like that should

1760
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:25,279
be instituted again you have to look at

1761
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:27,120
the big picture to understand this stuff

1762
01:08:30,789 --> 01:08:28,799
you can't just look at things flying

1763
01:08:32,470 --> 01:08:30,799
around in the sky i was playing with a

1764
01:08:33,269 --> 01:08:32,480
laser pointer with the cats the other

1765
01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:33,279
day

1766
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:35,520
and it occurred to me this is kind of

1767
01:08:39,110 --> 01:08:37,600
ufos this is look at this the cats are

1768
01:08:41,110 --> 01:08:39,120
running around trying to get this they

1769
01:08:43,510 --> 01:08:41,120
never catch it they never catch it it's

1770
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,520
a shiny object it sure is interesting

1771
01:08:47,030 --> 01:08:45,600
that's us with ufos we just look at

1772
01:08:49,110 --> 01:08:47,040
these things in the sky we're never

1773
01:08:51,749 --> 01:08:49,120
going to figure this out you got to look

1774
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:51,759
holistic big picture and i sure hope

1775
01:08:55,910 --> 01:08:53,920
someone's got the guts to

1776
01:09:01,030 --> 01:08:55,920
reinstitute this program and put column

1777
01:09:05,669 --> 01:09:03,349
well i i agree i agree with you and when

1778
01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:05,679
you kind of put in that context and you

1779
01:09:08,149 --> 01:09:07,359
know a lot of people feel good that that

1780
01:09:15,829 --> 01:09:08,159
we

1781
01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:15,839
versus uh the full breadth of what asap

1782
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:17,600
was uh tackling

1783
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:19,920
and then now you're conflicted it's like

1784
01:09:24,870 --> 01:09:22,080
we're we're doing less than we were

1785
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:24,880
before almost so how do you

1786
01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:27,359
you know stay positive about that one i

1787
01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:30,000
don't know that's not so easy but

1788
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:32,400
um what about you come what would you uh

1789
01:09:35,910 --> 01:09:34,400
suggest for for people like myself not

1790
01:09:38,709 --> 01:09:35,920
actively doing

1791
01:09:42,950 --> 01:09:38,719
uh field work or anything like that

1792
01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:42,960
i would not tend to um to put a lot of

1793
01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:44,000
uh

1794
01:09:47,189 --> 01:09:46,159
i guess weight on

1795
01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:47,199
what's going to come out of the

1796
01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:49,440
government i think what's really most

1797
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:50,719
encouraging

1798
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:53,040
that i can see in terms of straws in the

1799
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:54,480
wind is that

1800
01:09:59,030 --> 01:09:56,880
you know the last four years um louis

1801
01:10:01,590 --> 01:09:59,040
elizondo and chris mellon have really

1802
01:10:02,630 --> 01:10:01,600
sort of stirred the pot in terms of

1803
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:02,640
getting

1804
01:10:11,189 --> 01:10:08,159
and also raising the raising the

1805
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:11,199
the the whole framework you know it's

1806
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:13,280
like the rising tide

1807
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:15,600
raises everything so

1808
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:19,040
i i hear a lot of interest in

1809
01:10:24,950 --> 01:10:21,760
uh people in silicon valley i hear a lot

1810
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:24,960
of interest in academia

1811
01:10:31,750 --> 01:10:28,400
research uh and and you especially on

1812
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:31,760
the ufo front um that i don't think

1813
01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:34,560
existed you know five ten years ago

1814
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:35,840
and you know there's a lot of

1815
01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:38,000
initiatives that are sort of going on

1816
01:10:41,750 --> 01:10:39,440
behind the scenes

1817
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:41,760
that i think are are capable of

1818
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:43,040
producing

1819
01:10:48,070 --> 01:10:45,760
some useful stuff i mean you you guys

1820
01:10:49,350 --> 01:10:48,080
all know about the abbey lobe initiative

1821
01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:49,360
and and

1822
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:51,280
uh but there are other initiatives that

1823
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:53,920
are ongoing so i

1824
01:11:01,669 --> 01:10:57,120
if i only knew about the

1825
01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:01,679
aoi msg program and its sister

1826
01:11:05,270 --> 01:11:03,840
component the united states air force

1827
01:11:08,550 --> 01:11:05,280
both of which

1828
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:08,560
are are known for slow walking the ufo

1829
01:11:11,669 --> 01:11:09,440
topic

1830
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:11,679
i would not be very happy about you know

1831
01:11:16,229 --> 01:11:14,719
what what has happened but i think um

1832
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:16,239
eventually what's going to make the

1833
01:11:20,470 --> 01:11:17,600
breakthroughs

1834
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:20,480
is probably out in the public

1835
01:11:24,709 --> 01:11:23,199
where there's uh there's an awful lot

1836
01:11:27,030 --> 01:11:24,719
more interest

1837
01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:27,040
and you know the level of people that

1838
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:29,120
are now getting sort of interested in

1839
01:11:32,950 --> 01:11:30,480
going public

1840
01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:32,960
is catalyzing even more interest in this

1841
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:35,679
whole thing so i would i would be

1842
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:38,480
optimistic about what's happening

1843
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:40,800
um and you know without tuning our own

1844
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:43,760
horns i would say that the uh the asap

1845
01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:47,040
program was the original catalyst

1846
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:49,600
for this entire sort of

1847
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:53,440
evolution of ossap and then atip and

1848
01:11:57,430 --> 01:11:55,760
then uap task force

1849
01:11:59,990 --> 01:11:57,440
and then the the sort of pentagon

1850
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:00,000
initiatives but all of the publicity

1851
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,560
associated with that i think is driving

1852
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:04,640
a lot of interest in

1853
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:07,679
areas um that are well funded that have

1854
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:10,320
never had interest in this before so

1855
01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:17,189
i would say this you guys have you know

1856
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:19,840
your part could be offering a safe space

1857
01:12:24,470 --> 01:12:22,000
like this one where people can come and

1858
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:24,480
have a rational discussion you ask

1859
01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:26,640
pointed questions whatever you want but

1860
01:12:29,910 --> 01:12:28,239
it's not like are you still beating your

1861
01:12:32,070 --> 01:12:29,920
wife kind of stuff or you know those

1862
01:12:33,669 --> 01:12:32,080
kind of things or tabloid rumors or

1863
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:33,679
twitter i thought you mentioned it i'm

1864
01:12:41,669 --> 01:12:40,070
anyway yeah it's a joyful conversation

1865
01:12:42,470 --> 01:12:41,679
thanks for having us here we appreciate

1866
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:42,480
it

1867
01:12:47,750 --> 01:12:44,400
thank you

1868
01:12:50,390 --> 01:12:47,760
george this has been absolutely

1869
01:12:51,189 --> 01:12:50,400
wonderful and a true honor for sure

1870
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:51,199
yeah

1871
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:52,640
and i hope you liked the music video i

1872
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:54,000
made for you i don't do that for

1873
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:56,239
everybody

1874
01:12:59,990 --> 01:12:57,840
you guys even got a new theme song that

1875
01:13:01,669 --> 01:13:00,000
was awesome yeah it was really good very

1876
01:13:04,229 --> 01:13:01,679
enjoyable

1877
01:13:06,229 --> 01:13:04,239
all right so uh i appreciate it uh thank

1878
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:06,239
you so much and hopefully we'll get to

1879
01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:09,120
talk to you soon we'll do okay thank you

1880
01:13:13,270 --> 01:13:10,400
very much

1881
01:13:18,790 --> 01:13:14,550
i had a great time

1882
01:13:20,790 --> 01:13:18,800
wow absolutely wonderful so good yeah uh

1883
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:20,800
what great guys and

1884
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:23,920
you know when you you look

1885
01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:25,920
listen you listen to these folks you you

1886
01:13:29,510 --> 01:13:27,520
read about them

1887
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:29,520
and uh it's always a pleasure to be able

1888
01:13:35,110 --> 01:13:30,400
to

1889
01:13:37,830 --> 01:13:35,120
it's absolutely incredible you know yeah

1890
01:13:39,430 --> 01:13:37,840
these are people that are you know

1891
01:13:41,110 --> 01:13:39,440
living historical figures in a lot of

1892
01:13:42,790 --> 01:13:41,120
ways you know in terms of like the work

1893
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:42,800
that they've been doing and how they've

1894
01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:44,960
been able to push the ball forward so

1895
01:13:49,270 --> 01:13:46,880
like who else who else would you want to

1896
01:13:51,350 --> 01:13:49,280
talk to if it was just such lucky uh

1897
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:51,360
guys you and i like i could uh easily

1898
01:13:55,830 --> 01:13:53,440
just kept going like

1899
01:13:57,750 --> 01:13:55,840
you know it would have been no

1900
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,760
yeah exactly i did too and i was just

1901
01:14:00,550 --> 01:13:59,600
like oh man we don't go over it's late

1902
01:14:02,870 --> 01:14:00,560
for me

1903
01:14:05,270 --> 01:14:02,880
i know it's late for like yeah you're

1904
01:14:06,390 --> 01:14:05,280
probably starving are you starving oh

1905
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:06,400
i'm hungry

1906
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:08,880
oh yeah yeah i mean i for those of you

1907
01:14:12,950 --> 01:14:11,280
in the chat or watching us

1908
01:14:15,350 --> 01:14:12,960
five years in the future sean's always

1909
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:15,360
hungry that's kind of what i've it's

1910
01:14:19,270 --> 01:14:17,199
like that line uh with a hulk in

1911
01:14:21,669 --> 01:14:19,280
avengers where the secret is that he's

1912
01:14:24,470 --> 01:14:21,679
always angry well sean

1913
01:14:27,189 --> 01:14:24,480
sean's got his own version of that um

1914
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:27,199
i'm always angry he's always angry

1915
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:29,280
that's right thank you so much everybody

1916
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:31,920
in the chat for being great um really

1917
01:14:36,310 --> 01:14:34,320
appreciate it um

1918
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:36,320
yeah i don't know with that being said i

1919
01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:37,600
don't have anything planned for next

1920
01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:40,000
wednesday we'll have to see what happens

1921
01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:42,400
yeah i think i think we can i think we

1922
01:14:46,870 --> 01:14:44,800
can pull together a great guest and uh

1923
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:46,880
only goes downhill from here

1924
01:14:53,590 --> 01:14:51,110
absolutely not

1925
01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:53,600
i'm gonna care bear stare you man into

1926
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:58,709
i'm just kidding i know

1927
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:01,440
all right well all right

1928
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:03,280
i love you too buddy i'll see you soon

1929
01:15:08,810 --> 01:15:04,560
all right all right have a good one

1930
01:15:39,709 --> 01:15:23,510
[Music]

1931
01:15:39,719 --> 01:15:45,780
skin walker